The Bucket List Book Adventure: Gorgias by Plato — On Virtue, Discipline, and the Art of Oratory

 

Dear Henry,

Book 18 of the Bucket List Book Adventure is done! Let me tell you all about Gorgias by Plato.

Plato, as you’ll remember, was a Greek philosopher who lived from 428 to 347 BC. A student of Socrates and the teacher of Aristotle, most of his works are written as dialogues, conversations between Socrates and other prominent figures of the time. In Gorgias, Socrates debates with Gorgias, a statesman and master of oratory from Leontini, and his students, Polus and Callicles.

“What’s true is never refuted.”

— Socrates, Gorgias

The conversation begins almost immediately as an attack. Socrates challenges orators everywhere, arguing that public speaking is not a true profession but rather a craft. The debate soon turns to virtue — and whether oratory can ever be virtuous. Socrates eventually concludes that while public speaking can spread virtue, it cannot be a virtue, since rhetoric can easily be used to deceive or harm.

Socrates also implies that an unvirtuous culture will naturally reject virtuous orators, a sharp jab at Athenian politics.

“So to be disciplined is better for the soul than lack of discipline.”

— Socrates, Gorgias

This dialogue revisits themes from Meno, but here, Socrates gives virtue a more solid definition: discipline, orderliness, justice, and friendship. He argues that one cannot be happy without virtue, that pleasure without restraint leads to chaos both in the soul and in society.

As usual, the conversation wanders. At one point, Socrates digresses about the gods and the length of human life, concluding that fate belongs to the divine and that mortals should focus on living virtuously rather than worrying about when they’ll die.

I still wonder why Plato titled this work Gorgias since most of the actual arguments are between Socrates and Callicles, Gorgias’s student. Regardless, this dialogue feels more balanced than Meno; Callicles matches Socrates’ fire, making the debate feel lively rather than one-sided.

“Yes, Callicles, wise men claim that partnership and friendship, orderliness, self-control, and justice hold together heaven and earth, and gods and men, and that is why they call this universe a world order, my friend, and not an undisciplined world-disorder.”

— Socrates, Gorgias

Still, I’m not a fan of the Socratic method. Even when the dialogue feels fairer, Socrates’ constant questioning would drive me to walk away long before enlightenment set in.

Next up: The Republic, where I hope Socrates will finally define what makes a truly virtuous state.

xoxo,

a.d. elliott

*Note* The Bucket List Book Adventure continues on Rite of Fancy — my literary corner of the Take the Back Roads journey.  Come read more reflections on philosophy, faith, and the books that shape the road.

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a.d. elliott is a wanderer, photographer, and storyteller living in Salem, Virginia. 

In addition to her travel writings at www.takethebackroads.com, you can also read her book reviews at www.riteoffancy.com and US military biographies at www.everydaypatriot.com

Her online photography gallery can be found at shop.takethebackroads.com

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